A Couple of Questions - One directly about the iV, the other about the upcoming Maven

[DigitaLSD]

So, I have had the iV for quite some time now, and the Reagent Usage monitor is never correct. The Reagent Doser is set to 3 ml/min which I think is the default, but when I put reagent into my Dosing container (holds 1.5L), I always get notified that the reagent level is low.

Here are my steps:
Mix Reagent
Add Reagent to container
Go into App, tap on Control iV Rgnt (The Reagent Doser)
Under "Reservoir Remaining" I type in the 1.5L and hit set. Reservoir Remaining changes to 1.5L
After a couple of days, maybe a week, I get a notification "Reagent Reservoir is Low", I go to check on it, and there's still over 1L Left in the container
The "Notify When Reservoir Level Below (0=Never)" is set to 0.1L
And the pump screen where you add more to the reservoir indicates that it's below 0.1L

So, what am I doing wrong? Why is it not keeping track of the Reagent remaining in Reservoir correctly? Any help with this would be appreciated.



Now, onto my question(s) about the Maven. I saw part of the podcast on YouTube this morning. I am guessing that I can ditch the iV if I get the Maven, but will the Maven use the same Reagent as the iV for the Alk portion of the testing?

Also, will we be able to dump the reagents into our own dosing containers for use and just hook the maven directly to the various compartments on the dosing container?


My assumption on the Maven (again I only watched part of the podcast this morning) is that it has its own pumps built in, already all calibrated and what not, so I would be able to use the Control X10 Dosers to dose other things such as NOPOX, Kalk, etc and utilize the results from the Maven in order to facilitate dosing, right?

 

[thom_smith]

Curious your observations when the reservoir indicates it is low. If you were to estimate, would you say it probably has 750ml or half of your initial 1.5L volume? Don't think you are doing anything wrong. Several of us think the volume may be being subtracted twice during the test and as such is not accurate. The issue has been widely discussed and reported to CoralVue pending their feedback or firmware update.

Maven will have a pump which per the podcast last week will not require calibration. Then there will be several pinch valves for the various reagents and up to two sample inputs. In addition there's a small air pump which I believe will assist in purging lines in between tests. All that said, it is a standalone device which tests nitrate, phosphate, calcium, alkalinity and magnesium. Everything you need is included and all that is necessary is to connect color coded tubing to the reagent containers. There are seven reagent containers being two nitrate, two phosphate, two calcium/magnesium and one alkalinity if I recall correctly. While Maven tests alkalinity as does the X10, use cases for the X10 remain. Alkalinity is typically the most dynamicly changing and frequently tested parameter--especially in high demand SPS tanks--and is often tested sever times per day. While recurring reagent costs for Maven have not yet been released, it is probably a safe bet that testing alkalinity at the same frequency would cost significantly more with Maven. That said, there's certainly the ability to move your drain to a simple doser freeing up a second smart doser for NOPOX, Kalk, etc. Or if you don't have a high demand tank and testing daily or once every couple days is sufficient then you could free all smart dosers for other uses.

 

[DigitaLSD]

Curious your observations when the reservoir indicates it is low. If you were to estimate, would you say it probably has 750ml or half of your initial 1.5L volume? Don't think you are doing anything wrong. Several of us think the volume may be being subtracted twice during the test and as such is not accurate. The issue has been widely discussed and reported to CoralVue pending their feedback or firmware update.

Maven will have a pump which per the podcast last week will not require calibration. Then there will be several pinch valves for the various reagents and up to two sample inputs. In addition there's a small air pump which I believe will assist in purging lines in between tests. All that said, it is a standalone device which tests nitrate, phosphate, calcium, alkalinity and magnesium. Everything you need is included and all that is necessary is to connect color coded tubing to the reagent containers. There are seven reagent containers being two nitrate, two phosphate, two calcium/magnesium and one alkalinity if I recall correctly. While Maven tests alkalinity as does the X10, use cases for the X10 remain. Alkalinity is typically the most dynamicly changing and frequently tested parameter--especially in high demand SPS tanks--and is often tested sever times per day. While recurring reagent costs for Maven have not yet been released, it is probably a safe bet that testing alkalinity at the same frequency would cost significantly more with Maven. That said, there's certainly the ability to move your drain to a simple doser freeing up a second smart doser for NOPOX, Kalk, etc. Or if you don't have a high demand tank and testing daily or once every couple days is sufficient then you could free all smart dosers for other uses.

I have not paid attention to that, sorry. but I did just put in 1.5L of reagent tonight and reset the reservoir amount, so when it gives me the warning again, I will let you know. But if I had to guess, I'd say it's actually doing it 3 or possibly 4 times. I seem to recall putting in 1.5L and getting a warning when it was still at 1L. But I will let you know for sure.

Well, every Alk test I've ever seen is a simple titration test utilizing some form of acid at a specified concentration. This is why I asked if Maven will use the same reagent as the iV, or, if we could fashion our own reagent rather than having to buy a pre-mixed solution, the argument over whether or not it will be economical goes away. If it's uneconomical vs the iV/X10 why even include it in the unit? Just push buyers in the direction of the iV/X10 and test the rest of the parameters.

On my X10 currently I use the 4th doser to dose Kalk, which is actually another gripe I have and I posted about it in another thread a month or two after I got the X10 and iV. Inside of the Hydros Software, when setting up a Kalk Reactor you have the option for stirrer and pump, but you can't set that doser as the pump. You have to use a traditional pump on a power outlet or a drive port. Using a doser is far more accurate and has a ton more control than a simple on-off for a pump. As it stands now, I have to set up the doser on a smart doser schedule and then choose between either pH or Alkalinity, whereas if they allowed for that pump to be the Doser within the Kalk Reactor settings, the Kalk Reactor has the functionality to take both into account.

I test alk every 4 hours, so unless the maven can utilize the same reagent as the iV, or the Alk testing on the maven is as economical as the iV, I might be SOL

 

[thom_smith]

On my X10 currently I use the 4th doser to dose Kalk, which is actually another gripe I have and I posted about it in another thread a month or two after I got the X10 and iV. Inside of the Hydros Software, when setting up a Kalk Reactor you have the option for stirrer and pump, but you can't set that doser as the pump. You have to use a traditional pump on a power outlet or a drive port. Using a doser is far more accurate and has a ton more control than a simple on-off for a pump. As it stands now, I have to set up the doser on a smart doser schedule and then choose between either pH or Alkalinity, whereas if they allowed for that pump to be the Doser within the Kalk Reactor settings, the Kalk Reactor has the functionality to take both into account.

Have to agree with you on this point. The Smart Dosers are somewhat inflexible in that they only work with a Schedule and not as an output referenced by other built-in recipes. Kalk Reactor is the best example you and others have pointed out. There's a dynamic dosing schedule alternative I'd imagine you're using as a workaround but it'd just be a whole lot simpler if Smart Doser behaved like any other output device. I have similar complaint with my return and reactor pumps which are configured as Flow Pumps then I need to create the associated schedules.

I test alk every 4 hours, so unless the maven can utilize the same reagent as the iV, or the Alk testing on the maven is as economical as the iV, I might be SOL

Understand the principal of testing alkalinity by measuring initial pH, adding an acid to reduce pH, then calculating alkalinity based on sample size and volume of acid added. Maven doesn't have s pH probe and a prism was discussed in the release video so it is a safe bet they are doing things differently. Assuming an indicator, an acid, color interpretation through the prism. Wouldn't plan on it being the same reagent. Get what you're saying regarding the alkalinity overlap but I wouldn't call it SOL. Different tools for different scale jobs. And is anything in reefing econimical?

 

[DigitaLSD]

Have to agree with you on this point. The Smart Dosers are somewhat inflexible in that they only work with a Schedule and not as an output referenced by other built-in recipes. Kalk Reactor is the best example you and others have pointed out. There's a dynamic dosing schedule alternative I'd imagine you're using as a workaround but it'd just be a whole lot simpler if Smart Doser behaved like any other output device. I have similar complaint with my return and reactor pumps which are configured as Flow Pumps then I need to create the associated schedules.

I guess it's good to know others have brought it up, only thing we can hope for is that they do something about it.

Understand the principal of testing alkalinity by measuring initial pH, adding an acid to reduce pH, then calculating alkalinity based on sample size and volume of acid added. Maven doesn't have s pH probe and a prism was discussed in the release video so it is a safe bet they are doing things differently. Assuming an indicator, an acid, color interpretation through the prism. Wouldn't plan on it being the same reagent. Get what you're saying regarding the alkalinity overlap but I wouldn't call it SOL. Different tools for different scale jobs. And is anything in reefing econimical?

But I think that's how all Alkaline tests work. In a color change test, they are just using a pH reagent that has a sharp change rather than a pH probe. It changes color sharply below 4.2 pH because all of the alkaline compounds are gone at that point, but it's still measuring pH by way of adding an Acid solution if I am not mistaken, and the acid used is still adding Sulfuric Acid 99.9% of the time (I have heard of people subbing out sulfuric for hydrochloric, but I think most off the shelf tests use some concentration of sulfuric).

 

[Danny]

But I think that's how all Alkaline tests work. In a color change test, they are just using a pH reagent that has a sharp change rather than a pH probe. It changes color sharply below 4.2 pH because all of the alkaline compounds are gone at that point, but it's still measuring pH by way of adding an Acid solution if I am not mistaken, and the acid used is still adding Sulfuric Acid 99.9% of the time (I have heard of people subbing out sulfuric for hydrochloric, but I think most off the shelf tests use some concentration of sulfuric).

The Hanna testers work differently since you add a specific amount of reagent it it will check for color difference. So the Maven may be closer to the Hanna testers with it't test and dispense a specific amount of reagent to a specific size sample and check the color of the sample after the reagent is added.

 

[DigitaLSD]

The Hanna testers work differently since you add a specific amount of reagent it it will check for color difference. So the Maven may be closer to the Hanna testers with it't test and dispense a specific amount of reagent to a specific size sample and check the color of the sample after the reagent is added.

I didn't know that, never used a Hanna, they're a bit on the pricey side for what they are... I'd rather just do the work, lol

 

[DigitaLSD]

It just registered today low reagent, still just over 750 ml, so definitely counting as double.

 

[DigitaLSD]

@Carlos are you guys aware of this and working on a fix?

tldr; Reagent Reservoir is calculating double usage (doesn't affect test results only reagent reservoir remaining amount), prompting us to have to reset the reservoir in the app when it is actually still 1/2 way full...

 

[jposch]

The maven will use a set volume of reagent per test. Alk testing per pH reading will vary.
The maven runs similar to the hanna checkers with a set amount of reagent per test, and color change is detected, and converted vis a colorimeter.
With the IV, khg, Alkatronic, kamoer, etc. That use a pH Probe, reagent use will depend on alkalinity level, and of course frequency of testing.

 

[OSUTeege]

+1 for incorrect reagent reservoir usage, I’m experiencing the same double counting error.

 

[OSUTeege]

Correction more than double usage. Started with 2L. Pics tell the story.

 

[Jakerupe]

Well I'll put in a third one here. I have changed lines and re calibrated quite a few times but is usually about this same ratio, says I used a liter and 500-600 ml are still in the bottle.

 

[thom_smith]

Well I'll put in a third one here. I have changed lines and re calibrated quite a few times but is usually about this same ratio, says I used a liter and 500-600 ml are still in the bottle.

Only important thing is correct alkalinity measurement. If that's correct then zero.need to repeatedly recalibrate or change tubing just because container volume isn't accurate. That's an entirerly different issue. Now, if after multuple calibrations and tubing changes your alkalinity values are still not accurate we can provide other suggestions.

 

[OSUTeege]

Ok, so what’s the fix for the “entirely different issue”?

 

[thom_smith]

Ok, so what’s the fix for the “entirely different issue”?

Is your alkalinity result correct? And your only issue incorrect dosing container volume? As already stated, the dosing container volume isn't calcumated properly. it has been reported to CoralVue pending resolution. Track it manually for the time being and refill as necessary.