Delayed input timer

[Detri50]

I looked through the help section of the app. I may have missed it. But, I have my ato relying on the return pump "off if off". Weirdly, I thought this morning; 'What if the power goes out?'; will the ato activate when the power comes back on. Then 30 mins later the power flickered. Not an issue today. Since the water didn't drop below the sensor.

Is there a delay timer for that setting? So I don't have freshwater diluting my tank while the return pump cathes up. I didn't see anything in the settings of either of the programmable options.

Thank you!
Ron B.

 

[Danny]

You sump must react differently than mine. When my return pump goes out my level rises in the sump. But to answer your question if you set a minimum off time in the setting for an output and use depends on to stop it that counter starts when the depends on is released. So if you have the minimum off time set for 10 minuted and you turn off the return for 10 minutes the ATO would not turn on for at least 20 minutes total but 10 minutes after the return turns back on.

 

[thom_smith]

Danny beat me to it. The sump level should most certainly rise when the return is off. In all probability it isn't an issue in this particular instance. However if you're running a Hydros ATO or some form of DIY ATO that uses Hydros level sensors then there are definitely minimum/maximum run time and minimum off time suggestions. Check out

for some pointers.

 

[Detri50]

You sump must react differently than mine. When my return pump goes out my level rises in the sump. But to answer your question if you set a minimum off time in the setting for an output and use depends on to stop it that counter starts when the depends on is released. So if you have the minimum off time set for 10 minuted and you turn off the return for 10 minutes the ATO would not turn on for at least 20 minutes total but 10 minutes after the return turns back on.

Haha I should have said my tank is an AIO. So when the power goes out. It does fill the the chamber. But, when the power comes on It will lower the water below the sensor. Then catch up as it flows over the weer.

 

[Danny]

Post a screenshot of you ATO output settings. What ATO pump are you using?

 

[Detri50]

I will try that method for sure. I constantly think of fail safes. I add everything I think of as I go. I just couldn't wrap my head around this one.

 

[Detri50]

I'm using the hydros ato kit. Like I said in another post super happy!!!

 

[Danny]

Try setting a minimum off time of 15 minutes and also you might want to set minimum on time to 2 seconds with the Hydros ATO pump. You might want a higher maximum off time to keep the alerts down. I set the maximum off time for 6 hours but I dose MB7 sometimes and the skimmer is off for 4 hours when I do and the ATO does not run when the skimmer is off since it raises the water level in the sump. I do not have it set to red alert level. I set it to orange since it is not normally an emergency on my tank. I also have a High level sensor and a low level sensor that will send an alert if the level get out of bounds. I use a dosing pump so for the most part the only difference is on my max on time and minimum on timer are in minutes instead of seconds. The reason is the pump only pumps at a 43ml a minute flow rate. The one you use would probably be a gallon or more in that same time frame.

 

[Detri50]

Try setting a minimum off time of 15 minutes and also you might want to set minimum on time to 2 seconds with the Hydros ATO pump. You might want a higher maximum off time to keep the alerts down. I set the maximum off time for 6 hours but I dose MB7 sometimes and the skimmer is off for 4 hours when I do and the ATO does not run when the skimmer is off since it raises the water level in the sump. I do not have it set to red alert level. I set it to orange since it is not normally an emergency on my tank. I also have a High level sensor and a low level sensor that will send an alert if the level get out of bounds. I use a dosing pump so for the most part the only difference is on my max on time and minimum on timer are in minutes instead of seconds. The reason is the pump only pumps at a 43ml a minute flow rate. The one you use would probably be a gallon or more in that same time frame.

So, if I set the min off time to 15 mins will stop the ato pump from coming on when the power comes back on right away?

The reason I have the pump max time on set to 5 secs. Is, when the sensor is dry and activates the pump. The time delay from the sensor to the controller will "sense dry" until the controller catches up to the sensor and senses "wet". With my lid, I only top off less than .2 gallon per week. (Even with these temps). Which I believe is only 350ml. The amount of a soda can. If I have it more my ato won't turn on for a week or more. My salinity will fluctuate from 34ppm to 42ppm. My current settings only fluctuates 34 to 35 ppm.

Please keep in mind, I'm testing all of this while I have no live stock. My tank has been ready for livestock for 2 weeks now. My nitrate as of last week with no stock and only ghost feeding. Was only 7.5.

 

[Detri50]

Oh shoot, I also should have said my tank is only10-11 gallons with displacement. So water level is key.

 

[Danny]

The max on time is the longest it can run before it will shut off. if that happens it will not come back on as long ad the sensor remains dry or you intervene. Since you have the depends on set to the return pump if it goes off the ATO pump will not run for 15 minutes or the time you set for minimum off time. Also once it runs it will have to wait for at least 15 minutes before it runs again. Also it will run the minimum on time regardless of the sensor once it is turn on.That is why I suggested 2 seconds instead of three. That would be about 2/3 of what it does with it a 3 seconds.

 

[Danny]

With that small of a tank you might be better off using the dosing pump as an ATO since it has a flow rate of 43ml a minute. I use one on my tank and it is a 42 gallon tank.

 

[Detri50]

With that small of a tank you might be better off using the dosing pump as an ATO since it has a flow rate of 43ml a minute. I use one on my tank and it is a 42 gallon tank.

Ok, I've been quiet for a bit. Not because I disagree. You brought up a really good point. On my tank. 15 years ago, when I had a 90 gallon and a 55 gallon sump. With sfilagoi 250 mh with a dimmable ballast and t5 actinic bulbs. For obvious reasons the evaporation was really high. So much easier to control top off. With my current tank ATO has been insane, because of the size. Just to control salinity. But really not hard. Saying that. The experiments are while the tank has no livestock. Sooooo much easier.

My ideal option 'was' a dosing pump. But, I knew I wanted ATO. For $107.00 canadian. Versus 100 and change + the sensor. For the dosing pumps. To be fair, I wouldn't buy a dosing pump with less than 4 units. And the fact you have to have the doser above the container you are drawing from for top off "and" the tank you are adding it to. I really don't want am object that doesn't need to be seen. The fluval 13.5 doesn't give, out of the box, any option to automate the system my opinion, they should sell it for %50 to %100 more with the marine sea 3.0 light. But, that would mean that r and d would have to develope a new product to make up for the loss they would create for upgrading a great system better. God forbid.

Anyhow, with this ato pump on a 10-11g (with displacement). With my hood, this is my evaporation over "approximately" 3 days;


This in 90 degrees weather. WITH HOOD ON! And the only cooling system so far is surface agitation from the return pump. Keeps it between 77.5 and 78.5.

This is the volume of water the last chamber drops the overflow catches up to the water level I have my sensor set to.


The reason I asked in the first place. I seriously only have 1ppm fluctuation. If and when I have a power outages, and the ato comes on at the same time the return pump comes on, it will ruin the salinity I know I can maintain. Is there a delay while the return pump catches up to the ideal water level.

You said 15 mins. But, is this "REALLY" true? No offense. I'm a Carpenter that has done a lot of insurance work for people fie people that didn't care to think of everything.

Here is my empty tank .

 

[Detri50]

Not sure why I can't edit. But, the picture for the volume of the last chamber before the water level catches up. Is here

 

[Danny]

The 15 minutes I was referring to is for minimum off time. This will set it for a power failure and also limit how many top offs happen in a given amount of time. This can be tweaked for your system. You just have to keep an eye on how often it tops off in the log for the ATO. Also keep an eye on how long it runs. Over time you can tweak minimum on time, maximum on time, minimum off time and maximum off time for your system. If maximum off time and maximum on time are exceeded you will get an alert. Also you can set run past maximum on time to off and it will turn off the pump and will keep it off until the full sensor is met or you manually override the output to off and then on again. You want to set the maximum on and maximum off to send you an alert if something s not normal like the ATO not topping off in a given amount of time or it running for too long. I chose 15 minutes as a start since it is a shorter time but also long enough your level should recover before the top off starts agian after the return pump has been off.

I mentioned the dosing pump since it has a lower flow rate and it would be easier to control a more constant lefel than a higher flow pump. My ATO, AWC and dosing pumps are in my garage 35ft from the tank. I ran the tubing through the attic and inside the wall in PVC conduit. I live in Texas so I am not as worried about them freezing like you would be. I also have check valves on the output of each pump. One goes to the kitchen sink drain. The other three go to the sump of the tank. Yes my pumps are higher than the storage tanks but the ATO dispenses into the overflow in the tank were there is a large air gap between the ATO output and the water level there. It is higher than the pump but cannot siphon since it is not below the water level. For ATO I use the Hydros dosing pump which I think is less that $60 if I remember correctly. I got it when they first came out with it and it has been used as a ATO pump since I set it up without any issue. I was using a Intllab pump for that prior to getting the Hydros. The Hydros pump comes with a cable to connect it to a drive port just like the Hydros ATO pump. Here is a photo of my pumps in the garage behind my workbench. The bottom shelf assembly has the pumps for the tank that is setup and running. The top shelf is for a tank that is not yet setup. Since this photo I have added another pump in the open space. I switched from a dual head dosing pump to two single head dosing pumps and use the Hydros water change regimen for AWC now. The bottom right pump is the one for ATO. the reservoirs are under the workbench. The 4 solenoids at the top control the RODI unit and are used to automatically refill the DI reservoir and the mix tank when they get low.

 

[Detri50]

The 15 minutes I was referring to is for minimum off time. This will set it for a power failure and also limit how many top offs happen in a given amount of time. This can be tweaked for your system. You just have to keep an eye on how often it tops off in the log for the ATO. Also keep an eye on how long it runs. Over time you can tweak minimum on time, maximum on time, minimum off time and maximum off time for your system. If maximum off time and maximum on time are exceeded you will get an alert. Also you can set run past maximum on time to off and it will turn off the pump and will keep it off until the full sensor is met or you manually override the output to off and then on again. You want to set the maximum on and maximum off to send you an alert if something s not normal like the ATO not topping off in a given amount of time or it running for too long. I chose 15 minutes as a start since it is a shorter time but also long enough your level should recover before the top off starts agian after the return pump has been off.

I mentioned the dosing pump since it has a lower flow rate and it would be easier to control a more constant lefel than a higher flow pump. My ATO, AWC and dosing pumps are in my garage 35ft from the tank. I ran the tubing through the attic and inside the wall in PVC conduit. I live in Texas so I am not as worried about them freezing like you would be. I also have check valves on the output of each pump. One goes to the kitchen sink drain. The other three go to the sump of the tank. Yes my pumps are higher than the storage tanks but the ATO dispenses into the overflow in the tank were there is a large air gap between the ATO output and the water level there. It is higher than the pump but cannot siphon since it is not below the water level. For ATO I use the Hydros dosing pump which I think is less that $60 if I remember correctly. I got it when they first came out with it and it has been used as a ATO pump since I set it up without any issue. I was using a Intllab pump for that prior to getting the Hydros. The Hydros pump comes with a cable to connect it to a drive port just like the Hydros ATO pump. Here is a photo of my pumps in the garage behind my workbench. The bottom shelf assembly has the pumps for the tank that is setup and running. The top shelf is for a tank that is not yet setup. Since this photo I have added another pump in the open space. I switched from a dual head dosing pump to two single head dosing pumps and use the Hydros water change regimen for AWC now. The bottom right pump is the one for ATO. the reservoirs are under the workbench. The 4 solenoids at the top control the RODI unit and are used to automatically refill the DI reservoir and the mix tank when they get low.

View attachment 2561

Thank you so much! Your help is greatly appreciated. At this point I do feel safe using this system. When I was weighing my options for a controller, I was looking into the dosing pump solution. I didn't go this route for 2 reasons. 1. As read dosing pump info, the pump had to above the system you're using it on. And I didn't want to look at it all the time, haha. 2. Even though I could have bought the gear anywhere, it was important to me that I bought locally. And the Hydros dosing pumps were not available.

That said though. I'm definitely going to implement AWC via that method once I find the time to build a shelf/cabinet above the tank to hide them and sound proof.

I will implement your suggestions. But, I think a time delay feature would nice for added redundancy.

By the way. Your build thread on R2R is awsome!

Thanks
Ron B

 

[Danny]

Thank you so much! Your help is greatly appreciated. At this point I do feel safe using this system. When I was weighing my options for a controller, I was looking into the dosing pump solution. I didn't go this route for 2 reasons. 1. As read dosing pump info, the pump had to above the system you're using it on. And I didn't want to look at it all the time, haha. 2. Even though I could have bought the gear anywhere, it was important to me that I bought locally. And the Hydros dosing pumps were not available.

That said though. I'm definitely going to implement AWC via that method once I find the time to build a shelf/cabinet above the tank to hide them and sound proof.

I will implement your suggestions. But, I think a time delay feature would nice for added redundancy.

By the way. Your build thread on R2R is awsome!

Thanks
Ron B

Thank you, I am glad to help. I am hoping the build thread can give someone ideas as to how they can implement things I have done on their tank or build. They may not want to copy exactly but it hopefully will give them a starting point for their own use.