Help planning HYDROS setup

[beepboop]

My display tank is just a 20 g AIO, but I’m thinking about setting up HYDROS control for when we’re traveling and to try out for my eventual planned larger tank. I’m having a bit of a hard time sorting out how everything needs to go together, so I was hoping to lay out my tentative plan and get some advice on what I’m missing, what I should change, or if this is not a good choice. Hope this is an appropriate place for that.

Sorry in advance that I'm new at aquariums in general and have a lot of questions, surely including some that should be obvious.

Right now, I have my pumps, skimmer, and heater on regular smart outlets, I don’t really need to dose yet but will occasionally add manually to keep my calcium and alk/pH up, and do not have ATO or AWC.

Goals:

• ATO
• Dose Ca
• Dose Alk
• Control return pumps (2), skimmer, heater
• AWC
• Ph monitor
• Auto feeder
• Water mix station (not physically connected)?
• Control second tank?
• Possible alk testing and/or salinity probe in the future?

ATO: triple optical sensor in tank, doser, low water level sensor for resevoir - requires 2 sense ports and either smart doser or drive port for simple doser

Dose Ca, Alk: two dose pumps. Require either 2 smart dosers or 2 drive ports for simple dosers.

Control return pumps (2), skimmer, heater: 4 AC outlets from KP8 or wifi power strip. Probably get a skimmer level sensor if it will fit my miniQ and a temperature sensor (so another 2 sense ports)

AWC: use triple optical sensor in tank from AWC, two dosers, low FSW sensor. Requires sense port and either 2 smart dosers or 2 drive ports for simple dosers. Plan to run the output to a drain in the basement and have a small fresh salt water reservoir by my tank.

Ph monitor: ph probe. Requires probe port

Auto feeder: I think this is just controlled via wifi and I don’t need any smart outlets or ports?

Also get a rope leak detector for around/under/behind the tank. Requires sense port.

For this base setup, I think I need minimum 6 sense ports, 4 AC outlets, a probe port, and a combination of 5 smart dosers/drive ports for simple dosers. I was thinking about:

• X10, XS, simple doser, and wifi power strip (8 sense ports, 6 drive ports/dosers, 2 probe ports, 4 wifi outlets).
• Launch, X2, and 5 simple dosers. (6 sense ports, 6 drive ports to use for dosers, 2 probe ports, 4 built-in AC outlets)

Probably also get a wifi strip to control filter, heater, and powerhead on my even smaller QT tank and maybe a single outlet for an alert light in my room.

Questions:

1. Where would I want to use an XP8/launch AC outlet over the wifi powerstrip? If I want to monitor power usage? I already have most of my equipment on zigbee smart plugs with energy monitoring, which are bulkier but I already have them. I’m assuming those won’t connect to my HYDROS collective?
2. Where would I want to use the smart dosers over the simple dosers? I’m calling the dosers built into the X10 and minnow ‘smart dosers’ here - maybe that’s not the right phrase. What about the differences in the minnow vs. X10 dose pumps? Is it mainly about flow rate? I’d like to do AWC around ½ gallon per day with the pump mounted near the tank here, but also interested in how this would change for a bigger tank with a sump in the basement I'd like to have some day (although I imagine the dosing pumps would be next to the sump and just pull/remove from there)
3. I prefer a dose pump over DC pump for ATO, AWC because they seem to have fewer failure options (can run dry, don’t siphon). Does that seem right?
4. I think I’ve seen people mention running multiple sources on different dosing pumps into the tank together (i.e. 2-part dose liquids carried in with ATO) - which would be nice since my AIO return chamber is limited on space. Is that relatively simple? How would I best connect that?
5. Is there a good option for having a water level reading in ATO/FSW reservoirs rather than or in addition to wet/dry at a specific height?
6. I think I also need a bus terminator if I’m going to connect two controllers, right? Any other pieces I need that I’m missing?
7. My lights and power head are current USA controlled with their loop controller and wave engine. Is there a an easy way to integrate those into hydros?
8. I'm also interested in redundancies or fail-safes that I should add, especially for the ATO or AWC. I already have a Helios heater controller with two temp probes and a seneye, and don't really have room to easily fit another thermometer.
9. I’m fixing to add a tiny ‘refugium’ in one of my AIO chambers with a grow light. If I have an AC outlet for the grow light, would it make sense to slightly dynamically control it based on pH?
10. Would it be especially beneficial to get an IV for pH and possibly salinity measurements? It would have the added benefit for me of being able to put the ph and possibly EC probes outside of my tight return chamber.I think the x10 and minnow dosing pumps run either way and I think I see some people running the waste back into their tank even with alk measurements. Could I use just one dosing pump to run in sample water then return it to the tank with the same pump in reverse before the next test?

It would also be nice to add some monitoring/control to my saltwater mixing area in a different room (no physical connections to my tanks). I was thinking of getting something to check for or turn off flow to my RODI, a rope leak detector or other leak detector for the floor, and 3 controllable outlets for my mixing pump, heater, and air bubbler in my mixing bin.

1. Is a solenoid before my RODI unit the best way to control flow to my RODI? Just leave the tap on and rely on the solenoid to control flow to the RODI unit? I was thinking I could use a drive port HYDROS solenoid if I have a controller in there, or just a normal solenoid on a smart outlet if I don’t.
2. If I do have a HYDROS controller in there, can I connect it to my collective or control within the same app without physically connecting them with a cable? If I just have a HYDROS wifi powerstrip, I can control that from my collective without physically connecting them, right? Probably an X2 for the solenoid, leak detector rope, and high water sensor or float switch in my mixing bin, although I’m not sure the cost for that is effective over regular smart outlets and a float shutoff, since I’m not controlling much and don’t need it to interact with the logic of my tank.

Thanks for any help or advice!

 

[Danny]

To start with when creating a collective you are better getting two terminators. If you add several controllers you will need two but for just 2-3 you can probably get by with one. Second the difference in the XP8 and Launch AC output from wifi is that they are directly connected to the controller so no wifi involved. The wifi strips will only change states if commanded to do so so if communications is lost they will remain it the current state until communications is restored or power is removed from the strip. So you would not want to use them for critical things like ATO, AWC or dosing. The difference between smart dosers and simple dosers is one the flow rate and direction can be changed. The simple doser is just one direction and a fixed flow rate. I use my Minnow dosing pumps for AWC and use a Sole for ATO but a simple doser will also work fine for that. I also have the Hydros controlling my RODI and mixing station in the garage 35ft from the tank. There is a data only command bus cable between the controllers in the garage and the controllers at the tank. I have quite a bit of information on my setup in my build thread on Reef Central. The Hydros info starts on page 4 post #73. Here is a link if interested Hex Tank Build

 

[beepboop]

Thanks @Danny ! I've read through lots of your build thread on reef2reef, and found it very helpful for having an idea of how hydros pieces work and can be used! I'll spend some more time looking through your reef central build in order.

My main hang up right now is deciding where to start. Your build obviously had a previous controller system and has added HYDROS units as they've come out/been needed, and I'm a bit unsure of where to start now for what I'm looking for. I love that I can add additional HYDROS units as needed, but am really trying to figure out if I should start with a launch or x10. I know a lot of my other questions are probably less critical and things I can figure out some of along the way.

Also a sanity check that the components I'm considering will use the ports I think, accomplish the functions I think, and I'm not missing some obvious equipment/function I should be including for my goals.

For the dosers - are the smart dosers especially good for AWC so you can adjust the flow rate to match input and drain, rather than having to adjust time on/off to match volumes? It looked like the minnow had specific set speeds and not variable adjusted speeds, but the x10 has more control over flow rate, is that right?

 

[Danny]

The X10's would not be good for AWC since they are not meant for continous use. They are good for dosing or use with the iV for alkalinity testing. I use them for both. I do use the Minnow for AWC and it runs on a dosing schedule. Once all the lines were installed and the pumps primed. All it took was to run the calibration on each. In the calibration the Hydros runs the pump at the set flow rate for 1 minute. You then measure the amount and enter the amount into the Hydros. It then knows how long to run the pump for a specific dose amount. I have the daily water change split into 4 times a day. It currently changes 4000ml a day. I also have that information on doing it near the end of the thread. I think it is on page 10. I am currently running a Sole for ATO and it is also a smart doser more like a X10 doser but with a 300ml a minute top speed and it can be run in continuous mode. The X10 has no AC outputs on it so if you need them a Launch may be a better start unless you need pumps for dosing or will be using the iV.

 

[beepboop]

The X10's would not be good for AWC since they are not meant for continous use. They are good for dosing or use with the iV for alkalinity testing. I use them for both. I do use the Minnow for AWC and it runs on a dosing schedule. Once all the lines were installed and the pumps primed. All it took was to run the calibration on each. In the calibration the Hydros runs the pump at the set flow rate for 1 minute. You then measure the amount and enter the amount into the Hydros. It then knows how long to run the pump for a specific dose amount. I have the daily water change split into 4 times a day. It currently changes 4000ml a day. I also have that information on doing it near the end of the thread. I think it is on page 10. I am currently running a Sole for ATO and it is also a smart doser more like a X10 doser but with a 300ml a minute top speed and it can be run in continuous mode. The X10 has no AC outputs on it so if you need them a Launch may be a better start unless you need pumps for dosing or will be using the iV.

Ah, I didn't realize continuous use would include something like a few minutes at a time several times through the day - like I think you have your AWC set for. That's good to know. Should the simple HYDROS drive port dosing pump be ok for that? I think you mention using your first one for an ATO when you got it since it was the most used pump, and that when you replaced the tubing after a year it looked like it was still doing great?

Are there other smart pumps available comparable to the X10 pumps if I get a Launch and later want to add something like an iV? They look a lot like the kamoer F4 PRO - but I don't see anything about a controllable pump speed on the F4. Would it integrate to a HYDROS collective similarly to the X10 pumps? It seemed like it might be easier to replace the AC outputs on the Launch with an XP8 than the X10 dosers down the line.

I do want a couple of pumps initially for dosing, but I was under the impression the simple dosing pumps would be fine for that.

 

[Danny]

Ah, I didn't realize continuous use would include something like a few minutes at a time several times through the day - like I think you have your AWC set for. That's good to know. Should the simple HYDROS drive port dosing pump be ok for that? I think you mention using your first one for an ATO when you got it since it was the most used pump, and that when you replaced the tubing after a year it looked like it was still doing great?

Are there other smart pumps available comparable to the X10 pumps if I get a Launch and later want to add something like an iV? They look a lot like the kamoer F4 PRO - but I don't see anything about a controllable pump speed on the F4. Would it integrate to a HYDROS collective similarly to the X10 pumps? It seemed like it might be easier to replace the AC outputs on the Launch with an XP8 than the X10 dosers down the line.

I do want a couple of pumps initially for dosing, but I was under the impression the simple dosing pumps would be fine for that.

The simple dosing pumps will be ok as long as each dose is enough for at least a 2.5 second runtime. The closer to 1 minute you can get the more accurate the dose since that is the calibration time. So a 2.5 second run may not be as accurate as you need but they do have a simple doser that run at 2ml a minute so you can also use that for lower doses. The Minnow and the Sole are smart pumps. The speed is controlled by the controller on the smart pumps. The X10 and Sole uses precision stepper motors and those can be very accurate. The F4 cannot integrate into a Hydros collective since it is not a Hydros controllers. Only Hydros controllers can be members of a collective. The X10, Minnow and Sole are Hydros controllers that just happen to have dosing pumps built into them.