Wave Engine and Tunze

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Gary

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Hi All-
I need some tech support to finalize some decisions on the final stretch of this new build. I am considering to connect 2 Tunze 6105 power heads to a Tunze safety connector (connected to a 12V battery for back up) and have the controllers plugged into the 0-10V on the wave engine. My question is this- If I lose power, the Tunze controllers and powerheads will run automatically on the 12v backup power, but will the pumps continue to run with the wave engine having no power to it. Will the controllers keep them running at the same speed uninterrupted or does the 0-10V need to be unplugged?
 
Gary said:
Hi All-
I need some tech support to finalize some decisions on the final stretch of this new build. I am considering to connect 2 Tunze 6105 power heads to a Tunze safety connector (connected to a 12V battery for back up) and have the controllers plugged into the 0-10V on the wave engine. My question is this- If I lose power, the Tunze controllers and powerheads will run automatically on the 12v backup power, but will the pumps continue to run with the wave engine having no power to it. Will the controllers keep them running at the same speed uninterrupted or does the 0-10V need to be unplugged?
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First of all you don't need a Wave Engine to do 0-10v pump control. If you already have one driving Icecap, Maxspect or Reef Octo pumps then you can take advantage of the 0-10v output. If not, you could also use 0-10v outputs off a X4.

I am inclined to say your plan won't work though. The Wave Engine is humming along sending a signal to the Tunze while operating on normal power. Without a battery backup of its own, the Wave Engine will power down and send 0v. The Tunze control input is going to see 0v and likely interpret that as operate at 0%. Probably want to confirm with Tunze if you can ignore control input in outage situation.

Also, believe Tunze is 0 - 6.5v control, isn't enabled by default on the pump side and needs to be explicitly enabled. Don't have Tunze myself but recall other members of the group sharing.
 
I get that an X4 will control the 0-10V fiction, but no wave patterns without the wave engine. Tunze did confirm the WE would send 0v, you are correct. I also found out that since the Tunze is 24v, as soon as it goes on 12v battery back up, the pump power is halved and at max power only consumes 1.25amps according to Roger at Tunze. With the controller also having a pulse function it seems like the WE is not proving much additional benefits for the money.
 
Gary said:
I get that an X4 will control the 0-10V fiction, but no wave patterns without the wave engine. Tunze did confirm the WE would send 0v, you are correct. I also found out that since the Tunze is 24v, as soon as it goes on 12v battery back up, the pump power is halved and at max power only consumes 1.25amps according to Roger at Tunze. With the controller also having a pulse function it seems like the WE is not proving much additional benefits for the money.
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The Tunze battery backup function works very similar to Wave Engine which is also 24v prime power and 12v battery backup. Wave Engine may not be benneficial in your case if you already have the 6105 or are set on it. Only thing I would challenge you on is I believe the flow pattern schedules were decoupled from the Wave Engine a while back to allow people to use X4 for 0-10v control of flow pumps. I don't have any setups without Wave Engine anymore to confirm so maybe @Carlos can chime in and confirm.
 
What do you mean by “the flow pattern scheduled were decoupled from WE”?
Another thought I had was using the Ice Cap back up for the Wave Engine with the cable kit they sell. But now I am wondering if I simply use the X4 for 0-10v control, can I use the Ice Cap cable kit for back up power to the X4? I know it was made for the Wave Engine but will it work for the X4 and the just use a data only cable to connect the between the X4 and XP8?
 
Gary said:
What do you mean by “the flow pattern scheduled were decoupled from WE”?
Another thought I had was using the Ice Cap back up for the Wave Engine with the cable kit they sell. But now I am wondering if I simply use the X4 for 0-10v control, can I use the Ice Cap cable kit for back up power to the X4? I know it was made for the Wave Engine but will it work for the X4 and the just use a data only cable to connect the between the X4 and XP8?
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I think the Wave Engine requirement to be able to create flow pattern schedules was removed a while back. May be just my imagination, but I seem to recall working with somebody in the group who tried the same to discover schedules hidden/unavailable and CoralVue said it was just an oversight that was resolved shortly after. You obviously need the Wave Engine to power and control Icecap, Maxspect and Reef Octo pumps. But I am pretty sure you can create 0-10v flow pumps and access the flow pattern schedules with an X4.
 
You do not need a WaveEngine to configure and run 0-10V flow pumps, but you need a device that has 0-10V OUT ports which, at this time, only the WaveEngine (v1/v2) and X4 have.
 
I do have an X4 to plug into but what I want to know is will the X4 allow me to assign actual preset flow patterns (reef crest, etc.) and schedules, as you would find in the wave engine?
 
Perfect, then the only other question I would have is if I can use the Ice Cap battery back up V3 with the Hydros Ice Cape battery back up cable kit for back up power to the X4 instead of a Wave Engine? The plugs look the same...
 
Gary said:
Perfect, then the only other question I would have is if I can use the Ice Cap battery back up V3 with the Hydros Ice Cape battery back up cable kit for back up power to the X4 instead of a Wave Engine? The plugs look the same...
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No. At this time, if you want the backup battery to power the HYDROS devices, you need a WaveEngine (V1/V2/LE).
 
I see. I guess I never thought of the fact that the WE would actually provide backup power to ALL the Hydros devices hooked up to it with power/data cables during a power outage. If I have two X4s, one XS, two XP8s and a WE and I ONLY use the ICE Cap to provide power to those devices (not to my power heads) how long do you figure the Ice Cap battery would last? I know I can always unplug the power/data cable so only the WE would receive power but I am looking for a more fully automated process during a power outage..
The only other option would be to hook up the X4 to a UPS back up battery but if I am not home I doubt the UPS would power all those devices for very long. I have one nearby that is hooked to my primary router and modem and the UPS says it will power those 2 devices for about 4 hours.
I am just looking for a reason to keep the WE and not send it back before opening it!
 
Gary said:
how long do you figure the Ice Cap battery would last?
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I hate to answer a question with "depends," but it is the only answer based on the information provided. The more devices you run on the battery, the quicker it drains. It also concerns the age and the number of charging cycles the battery has gone through. The IceCap Battery is 2.5Ah, allowing you to approximate running time if you have potential load numbers.
 
I guess I could just use the IC back up or UPS back up to keep the X4 running and make sure the X4 is last in the Hydros chain and have it connected via data only cable? That way only the X4 will be pulling power, which is all I really need to keep going. I believe that data only cable only comes in 25ft though and I would only need 1ft, lol.
 
Gary said:
I guess I could just use the IC back up or UPS back up to keep the X4 running and make sure the X4 is last in the Hydros chain and have it connected via data only cable? That way only the X4 will be pulling power, which is all I really need to keep going. I believe that data only cable only comes in 25ft though and I would only need 1ft, lol.
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Once the Kraken comes out later this year, you can use a battery to power HYDROS devices and the Tunze controller. TheKraken will give you a wider set of options.
 
Yes, I can not wait for that. Plus eliminating all those bricks. Cant come out soon enough!
In the short run though, am I correct with the configuration mentioned above with the data only cable and putting the X4 at the end of the Hydros chain with a terminator and let the IC or UPS backup only power the X4?
If the X4 stays powered then I can use the Tunze safety connector to an AGM battery and all should switch over flawlessly to battery back up.
 
You will need both if you want to keep the HYDROS alive and the Tunze in low-power mode. You will need the IceCap Battery connected to a WaveEngine (V1/V2/LE) and the Tunze to its battery backup. The IC battery will keep the WaveEngine, any device connected to the blue command bus port, and any pumps attached to the yellow ports alive.
 
I’m sorry I meant if I only use the X4 0-10v to control the Tunze pumps then I could get a data only cable for the X4 and power the X4 with a UPS back up.
Then the pumps would be hooked to the safety switch and AGM battery to power them. True I would not get the auto power reduction tj the pumps like the WE but the Tunzes are 24v and when they switch to a 12v battery they run on only 50% power automatically at only 1.25a according to Roger at Tunze.
I just need to know in order to keep the X4 alive if I can do so by putting it at the end of the Hydros chain with a data only cable and terminator then connect its power supply to a USB back up. But now thinking about this more, the X4 does not even have a power supply, does it?
 
As I explained above, if you connect the IceCap battery to the WaveEngine, it will keep the WaveEgnine and anything connected to the blue command bus port (in this case, your X4 connected via regular data/power cable) and any pump connected to the yellow pump ports. The AGM battery will take care of the Tunze pumps.

If you do not have a WaveEngine, connect the X4 small power supply to a UPS backup battery and the Tunze to the AGM battery.

The UPS backup battery will keep the X4 alive and any device connected to the blue command bus port.
 
Skipping the Ice Cap and the WE altogether. Your last scenario is what I am asking about.
If I ONLY want the X4 powered and no other Hydros devices would it be correct to put the X4 on the end of the Hydros device chain with a data only cable going into it and a power supply which I will have to buy since the X4/XP8 pro pack did not come with an X4 power supply?
 
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